Articles & Papers

Living with our Differences

By Brenda J. Moulton and Howard Miller
Originally published in Open Hands, Vol. 11, No. 4 (Spring 1996)

Two years ago a closeted lesbian pastor of a small, rural American Baptist congregation in Rhode Island was challenged by one of the deacons to disclose her sexual orientation. After a series of meetings, in which the pastor came out, the church turned down a recommendation by the Board of Deacons to ask for her resignation. On the second anniversary of this decision, the pastor and deacon reflect.

Why Howie Took Action

Brenda: It all started on Martin Luther King Sunday... I used a prepared litany on the oppression of the black community and how oppression still exists in the world today...and there was this "list"...

Howie: Yeah... (joint laughter)

Brenda: ...and in the list, it said "gay and lesbian people." I struggled about whether to take that phrase out.

Howie: ...and I picked up on it. I had suspected for a while that you were gay. I thought I should call a few key people in the church and let them know my feelings. Everything went from there.

Brenda: That was two years ago. And we're still here!

Howie: Right! ( joint laughter)

Brenda: So, what was it that concerned you?

Howie: I want be able to go to my pastor with moral issues and have them respond in a biblical sense. But if they're not following what I consider to be a biblical principle, then how can I rely on them for anything else? And I certainly didn't know much about you at the time...so...

Brenda: According to your interpretation of scripture, homo–sexuality is wrong, and here I was as pastor saying "I'm gay and homosexuality is OK." That went against everything you believe, so therefore, how could I be your pastor and proclaim the gospel?

Howie: Exactly. That was the major conflict for me.

Brenda: Another concern in the congregation was "What about the kids?" Not in the sense of what I would DO to the kids...but rather "You're the pastor, the kids like you, you're a role model. This 'life–style' isn't something we want our children to follow. If you stay, how are we going to reconcile that?" So, in addition to your concern about my being the pastor and leading the congregation, others had this question of my mentoring the children.

Howie: Exactly.

Unresolved Issues

Brenda: So, although the church didn't call for my resignation, we still haven't resolved these two issues.

Howie: I guess not, not for everybody. I think it's up to the parents to teach the children. I don't necessarily think that you being there is going to sway them one way or another. As for being a pastor, well I certainly feel you are called by God. That one issue of your sexuality, that's between you and God. It's out of my hands...that's how I've resolved it.

Brenda: So we agree that we disagree, but the difference is still there?

Howie: It's always going to be there. The only way it can be resolved is either you have to see my point and change, or I have to see your point and change. I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Brenda: Maybe that's the point. So many people use so much energy trying to convince the other person that "I'm right, you're wrong, and in order for us to live together, you've got to agree with me."

Howie: That's not happening here.

Why People Didn't Leave

Brenda: What keeps us in ministry together in the midst of our differences?

Howie: For me, I've got to trust God. He's either going to have to point out to one or the other of us that we're wrong, or work around it, or work with it; but, bottom line, it's God's job.

Brenda: So the resolution for you is in letting it go and letting God be in control. You did what you felt you needed to do. I did what I felt I needed to do. Then we just say "OK, God, the rest is up to you?"

Howie: That's right...and it's no longer an issue.

Brenda: And not one person has left the church, as far as we know, over the issue of my sexuality.

Howie: That's right.

Brenda: What is it about our church that kept people there?

Howie: Well, the way I feel about the church is, if I leave for everything I disagree with, I could change churches for the rest of my life and never be happy. I'm happy with everything and everyone here. There's just too strong a nucleus to let anything break it up.

Brenda: But that's not typical. What holds us together?

Howie: God...the Holy Spirit. I have no other explanation.

Brenda: It does seem so simple. When I tell my story to people, they always ask, "How many people left?" When I say "Nobody," they ask "Well, what about the guy who made the phone calls?" When I respond, "Oh, he's still there. I baptized his son last summer," they can't believe it. (joint laugher) When I'm asked why people haven't left, I explain that people are committed to their ministry, to the church, to Christ, to living out what they feel called to do, and so they're still there doing it.

Howie: Yeah.

Brenda: Yet so many other people would say "My commitment to God says I have to leave. I can't stay in this place where there's this sin." People use the same argument, their commitment to Christ, to leave.

Howie: That reminds me of the scripture where Jesus said "I come to heal the sick." I don't need to go to a church where everybody's all set.

Brenda: The scripture I thought of was "Christ is our peace and has broken down the walls of hostility between us."

Howie: It may seem that it was a drastic issue for me at the time, but it's no worse than someone who smokes, or someone who gets pregnant out of marriage, or someone who cheats on his wife. There are no scales of points on sin–sin is sin.

Brenda: The difference here is that I don't say that homosexuality is sinful, whereas most people would agree that cheating on your wife is a sin. Still, I agree, if my relationship with Pat were a sinful relationship, it wouldn't be any worse than any of those other sins.

Howie: A lot of pastors smoke, and drink, and everything else, and it's worse to hide it than it is to say, hey, I do it, that's the way it is.

Brenda: So does the fact that I'm open about my sexuality make it easier for you to tolerate the difference?

Howie: Sure. If you really think something's wrong, you're going to hide it.

How God Is Working in Us

Brenda: How do you feel God working in our church or with you or me in this issue?

Brenda: Do you think there's any connection between what we've been through and the growth we're experiencing now?

Howie: Yes. There's tolerance for accepting other people for who they are.

Brenda: I agree. Because we grappled with the issue of sexuality, we became more sensitive and willing to struggle with each other on tough issues. We are getting new people from many different theological points of view and church backgrounds. They feel that who they are and what they believe is welcomed in our church.

Howie: Right! We don't challenge each other with different doctrine and scripture. There's no need to talk about it because it's not that big a deal any more.

Brenda: In a way, though, we are continuing to deal with it. I used to use sexual orientation as an example when I named how people are discriminated against. I've dropped that because I don't want to be "in your face." Yet, every time I stand up in that pulpit I'm saying something about my beliefs about sexuality. How has that affected how you see me as your pastor?

Howie: Well it's changed because you haven't done anything. Everything else seems to be in line with what I believe and what I think the scriptures say. You're the first person I call when I have something I need to talk about and when I need Christian advice.

Brenda: The fact that we disagree over the interpretation of parts of scripture doesn't negate what I say about everything else?

Howie: Not at all. This seems to be the only issue.

Advice for Other Churches

Brenda: What advice would you have for other churches in a conflict like we went through, whether it was about sexuality or some other issue?

Howie: Take a look at yourself first. The scripture says "Remove the plank from your own eye." And trust God and the Holy Spirit.

Brenda: We maintained respect for one another and for our opinions–even when those opinions differed. We saw the Christ in the other and valued God's creation in that other person.

Howie: Yes, and if you have compassion for people, you'll get through whatever you have to get through. A lot of things boil down to compassion for people. You either have it or you don't. If you don't, you'll be very narrow because your way is the only way. If you have it, sometimes you have to see the other side even if you never agree with it.

DEEP IN CONVERSATION: Brenda J. Moulton, pastor, and Howard Miller, deacon, of Chestnut Hill Baptist Church, Exeter, Rhode Island, continue their dialogue. Brenda is also coordinator of the Association of Welcoming & Affirming Baptists. Howie teaches the Jr. High Sunday School class.

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